Rebuilt to Last: When Jesus Is All You Have

Rebuilt to Last (Pt. 1): When Everything Collapses and Jesus Is All You Have (with Ash)

In the first episode of the Rebuilt to Last series, we welcome back Ash, a writer, actor, director, and longtime youth development professional for an honest conversation about the “in-between” season of rebuilding.

During a time that brought unexpected loss and uncertainty, Ash shares how community, therapy, and faith helped him begin putting the pieces of life back together. From the kindness of a church couple who opened their home to learning gratitude, self-forgiveness, and patience with the process, this episode explores what it really looks like to rebuild when life doesn’t go as planned.

A hopeful conversation about faith, healing, and trusting God in the middle of the rebuilding.

Find Asheesh's film work here: https://www.youtube.com/@neversleepproductions4991 

Previous episodes with Asheesh

Breaking Generational Lies Episode S8 E4
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1643374/episodes/12627485

God So Loved the World S5 E6
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1643374/episodes/9990179

Connect with us on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/justknowthough/

Just Know Though Podcast offers a safe space to discuss mental health, including topics like depression and past trauma. These conversations are not meant to focus on any individual guest, but to shed light on the difficult emotions many people face. We aim to highlight the strength and resilience required to overcome such challenges, while promoting understanding, support, and compassion. Mental health struggles are more common than we realize, and it's important to show kindness to ourselves and others.

If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out for help. You matter, and your well-being is important. Don’t hesitate to connect with the resources below:

988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline — Call or text 988
Crisis Text Line — Text HOME to 741741
National Sexual Assault Hotline (RAINN) — 800-656-HOPE (4673)
National Domestic Violence Hotline — 800-799-SAFE (7233) or text START to 88788
SAMHSA Treatment Helpline — 800-662-4357

Remember, it’s okay to ask for help.

Transcript

Rebuilt - Asheesh

Asheesh: [00:00:00] I know for a fact it's part of my own story. Our own decisions are what will contribute to us having to be broken in the first place.

Maybe God didn't have that plan for you in that season, but you started making some decisions, or we started making some decisions like I did, and God goes whoa. In order to keep you, I'm gonna break you. 

Speaker: welcome to Just Know the podcast our mission is to keep it real and to encourage you in whatever you're walking through. Just know you are never alone. I hope you enjoy today's episode.

Jenn: All right, welcome or welcome back to just Know the podcast. I was just talking story for a while with our guest Ash here. And we're just so excited. It has been a minute since we've recorded together we'll get into formal introductions and things like that, but I just wanna say welcome back, Ash.

Asheesh: Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's good to be back to the Just Know though [00:01:00] podcast. The first podcast I ever did actually.

Jenn: And this is your third episode with us.

Asheesh: Yeah, I guess I just can't get enough. 

Jenn: No, God always puts you on my heart. I love it. You've not heard by the title, this series is called Rebuilt to Last it's really just talking about how what we see as ruined God makes something so beautiful out of it. There's gonna be seasons in our life where we see something and we wonder how is God gonna make this work?

Where do we go from here? And he is the author and finish of our faith. And we may not see it with the point in time that we're at, but he can see beginning to end. So we're really just gonna talk about that in-between season of being rebuilt. For the glory of God I am super pumped that you're the first recording for this series.

I couldn't have imagined it any better. 

Asheesh: Yeah. It [00:02:00] feels like I've definitely been set up to be able to speak on this particular topic, whether I like it or not,

Jenn: oh yeah. Same. 

Asheesh: Yeah. 

Jenn: No one wants to be in this position, but we are. 

And so I just hope anyone listening, it just feels encouraged and doesn't feel any shame because I think the whole goal is to let people know that we are gonna have those reconstruction phases in our life, and we can look at people like we look at Job and be like, what did you do wrong?

And not really have a spirit of humility and try to understand and genuinely support people who are going through that. And also be prepared when we go through that ourselves.

I guess before I get started, I will link all of Ash's episodes in the description, but I do wanna do a formal introduction for any new listeners. Ash is a talented writer, actor, director, and songwriter. He has worked in major [00:03:00] Hollywood circles as well as the

independent film world. And he has worked professionally with youth development for over 12 years, specializing in, at risk youth work.

I do wanna say that Ash is super talented and I think you are so gifted in expression and creativity, and that's why I love having you on the podcast.

That's why I like talking story with you because you're able to hold a lot of space and understand those dark feelings that not a lot of people can. I wanna make sure that I express that to you, that I'm thankful. I don't ever wanna take that for granted that you are able to go places that some people aren't able to go.

Asheesh: Oh, thank you for that. I appreciate it. I love the fact that every time I'm listening to an episode of your podcast, that all of your guests seem to bring a lot of real and authentic humanity to what they're going through and what they're experiencing. And then when it comes to speaking about, especially [00:04:00] speaking about following God or following Jesus, you don't seem to ever promote a watered down pursuit of Christ or a watered down human experience of what it is.

To be a Christian or a Christ follower or a disciple. And I really appreciate that. So that's why I definitely was like, yeah, for sure. I'll do, another episode? 

Jenn: Yeah. We cannot water this down. Like it's tough out here some days, some years, some decades.

It's tough. And so I think we'd be doing a disservice to God and not truly being able if we kept things surface level. Could you imagine? 

Asheesh: I think you might have had two episodes be really Yeah, we wouldn't 

Jenn: have got far. 

Asheesh: I probably would be like, I'm gonna pass, I can't be on something surface level, like I 

Jenn: appreciate that.

Asheesh: Like I said, when I was in the height of doing. Everything that I was [00:05:00] doing, especially with Hollywood and independently.

There are offers, there are people that want you to come on their podcast and talk about different topics and such, but you find very few quality ones, and that's why I remember coming across, listening to, I can't remember what particular episode it was, but I know you had a female guest and she was just talking about how she overcame something from her past.

And she was really raw. She was honest. And then you were chiming in as well. And I was like, man, these are two real people having a conversation. And even though they're imperfect people, they're still representing a perfect God.

And so , it was really good and sobering to find your podcast.

Jenn: Anything else you wanna share before we get started that you think the audience should know? 

Asheesh: Do you remember Goosebumps, the show? 

Jenn: Briefly. 

Asheesh: Do you remember? Before the show would come on, they would have this really weird kind of corny tagline saying, viewer beware, you're in for a [00:06:00] scare.

Jenn: Yeah. 

Asheesh: So that's 

Jenn: the only part I remember. 

Asheesh: That's exactly what I'm saying. Listener beware, you're in for a scare type of thing. But 

Jenn: When you heard about this series rebuilt to Last, what did you think and what came up for you? 

Asheesh: When I heard rebuilt to last, I was like, what are you doing to me, Jen? Why are you asking me to come on this particular episode? And then I read the guidelines and I read the, basically what the topic would be.

And then my first thought was, man, in order to be rebuilt, something has to be broken because it was already put together. When that season happens, before it's rebuilt, there's that breaking season, and then there's the season where it's just in parts and in pieces. And then I started going, what are you doing to me, God?

Because this is the season that I'm in right now that I'm experiencing, that I've been in [00:07:00] for a couple of years actually. And then it just became a little more clear. Was that I believe that God was like. Leading me just to get to the place of, instead of focusing on all of those parts, I want you to focus on this season of being rebuilt, even if it doesn't feel good.

I want you to see how you are being placed back together strategically with love by God, even though it hurts is an understatement. It can be excruciating. To go through a season of complete and total collapse. 

Is something that you, thank God that you survived 

Jenn: yeah. 

Asheesh: But then a lot of times you may have thoughts of man, I wish I didn't survive that.

I've had plenty of those times where , I really wish I didn't survive that breaking. I really wish I could have just, that could have been it. But as we know, when it comes to scripture, God's the one that has the final say so.

And though [00:08:00] Elijah wanted to die, and though I think Jeremiah wanted to die and David wanted to die, God was like, nah, I got other plans for you. And right now, just like you were talking about just that in between season, that limbo of existence, that place of being rebuilt is like a wine press.

You know what I mean? It's just like you're trying to come out of being crushed almost and be reassembled, put yourself back together. And sometimes if you don't wait on God in order to put yourself back together, what I've learned the hard way is that you'll grab the wrong parts.

We do. 

Jenn: This part should go here. 

Asheesh: Yeah. We grab the wrong parts and we'll start attaching things where they don't go. 

Jenn: Yep. 

Asheesh: And we'll grab the wrong people and we'll grab the wrong places

We'll just do whatever we can to not feel incomplete. 

Jenn: Yeah. 

Asheesh: Just trying to put yourself together, whatever you find, a fork, [00:09:00] a toaster, like whatever you can to try to get yourself going again.

Jenn: Yeah. 

Asheesh: But ultimately it's only gonna be those parts that God brings into your life at the time he brings them in there. It's gonna be able to put you back and assemble you the way that you were meant to be. And that takes patience. Patience that I don't like to have. 

I guess that's just the best way I could put it.

When I saw that title rebuilt to last and the first thing I thought of was brokenness. In order to be put back together, something's gotta be broken. You learn how to really respect that in between season. You learn how to respect it, and you have to develop a functioning relationship with it. Even if it's not a good relationship. You gotta develop a functioning relationship with it because you're there and that's just what it is.

Jenn: Yeah. 

Thank you. That was really profound. That was good. So what got me though is when you said, when everything like collapses, [00:10:00] when everything falls and it's the grief and the sorrow, and that's the part that really rocks you. And that's when you start grabbing the parts.

What can I salvage? What can I keep, , what did I miss? What can I go back for? And God's no, like we're cleaning house right now. Like we're starting over. And yeah, that, that's a really hard, a hard place to be in. And real quick, 'cause I feel like this is probably fresh for both of us in our minds.

For anyone listening, 'cause you talk about respecting the season, even if it doesn't feel like it, right? 

Asheesh: Yeah. 

Jenn: When did you have that moment of like, all right, Lord, you have me going through this. Like, when did your faith kick in when that was happening? I. 

Asheesh: My faith kicked in when I got to a place.

I won't go into specifics, but I will say just in [00:11:00] general part of that identity collapse that I have that had gone through and experienced was largely because of a divorce that I had went through.

And when that happened, all of the systems and the support and the relationships and connections that I had prior to they systematically just started. Disappearing and disintegrating, so I was in this place of compound grief, of loss, of abandonment, trauma.

Mind you, these things happened and occurred not because they were completely and totally the fault of other people. A lot of things are largely my fault, so I don't ever want to speak from a aspect of a hero.

This is the story of the other person involved. I won't say villain because you'll rebuke me, but I'll say that this is the story, right?

The story, the viewpoint of the man who made the decisions [00:12:00] that contributed largely to his downfall and the mercy of a God who was good enough. To come and sit with the man in all of the darkness that he created for himself. So my faith grew at a part of my life when everything else was fading.

And I even remember speaking at one of our men's group meetings one night. I didn't want to talk. I felt like I didn't have anything to say. I had just lost a marriage of almost 20 years. My identity, my connections, my industry connections, my home. And then they were like, could you speak tonight?

We believe that, you have something for us in the men's group. So when I shared that night, I was sharing about, all I really have is Jesus. And I was like, I think we take that. We wrap it up in a [00:13:00] bowl and we make it nice and pretty and say, oh, Christ is enough, or Jesus is enough.

And I'm just like, do people really understand what it means to only have Jesus 

Jenn: Go there? Yeah. 

Asheesh: I'm like, do you really? I don't think you really want to know what that is. That's what I would say. I almost say it's a beautiful thing to, to have Jesus and to know that God is with you and to walk in faith and to hold on to him.

But my gosh, man, , will it ever crush you? Will it ever break you? Will it ever take you to a place of such darkness sometimes just to know that Jesus alone is enough.

Jenn: Yeah. 

Asheesh: And he'll show you because he'll be the one that will show up when everybody else is gone. 

And that's why I'm still here.

So my faith and I guess my viewpoint of, life, even in the middle of all that other things, the other things we were just speaking about, those other circumstances to see that God is not just the [00:14:00] mainstay when you read in his word. He's not just only there when you're, and I would speak at churches prior to and things like that as well, because I had done music and such, right?

It wasn't just that he was there then, or when I was trying to go through our religious checklist that we all have just us being and existing as who we are in Christ, even in a state of great grief and brokenness and just misery.

It's enough. I think I was just telling my dad the other day, my dad was saying something about he was trying to do what he could to get as close as he could to God. And I told Dad, I said, just be broken and God's gonna come running.

'cause it says that he's near to the broken hearted and close to those who are crushed in spirit. 

Jenn: Amen. 

Asheesh: And it sucks to feel that it really sucks to be brokenhearted. It sucks to be crushed in spirit. It sucks to not even know who you are when you look in the mirror sometimes. 

But to know within the realm of the [00:15:00] spirit and things that go way beyond what you and I or anybody else can see on this earth or this side of heaven.

To know that God is still moving again, rebuilding, going back to that grand design of your life and rebuilding you to be together to last. And he's moving things around and he is using all these pieces. He's using the grief. He's using the pain, he is using the suffering, he's using the agony, and you're just going, could you paint with some different colors, please?

Yeah. 

Like I'm exhaust, that's enough. Yeah. Yeah. This is enough. And, but ultimately it's just that you can feel like God is at times, he's just hold on, I'm almost done. Hold on.

And I think it says that, what is his hands?

They'll tear down or they'll break down, but then they'll also bind up, i'm speaking just because maybe somebody else out there needs to hear it. And I know for a fact it's part of my own story. Our own decisions are what will contribute to us having to be broken in the first place.

Maybe God didn't have that [00:16:00] plan for you in that season, but you started making some decisions, or we started making some decisions like I did, and God goes whoa. In order to keep you, I'm gonna break you.

In order to keep you right now, I'm gonna break you.

Jenn: Yeah. 

Asheesh: I'm gonna put you back together, but I need you to understand some things.

I need you to learn some things here first.

And you probably aren't gonna come out of that lesson that he gave you, I'm almost a hundred percent guaranteed you're gonna come out different. 

Jenn: Different, yeah. 

Asheesh: Yeah. Because when God teaches you a lesson, he teaches you a lesson, man, the Lord. He chastises those he loves.

Right. 

Jenn: Amen. 

Asheesh: Have you ever asked God Hey. Could you maybe just love me a little less?

Jenn: Yeah, no, I've had moments with God. When you're going through those we'll get into that later, but different phases of rebuilding, but like that demolition phase and it's Lord what did I do to deserve this?

What did I do? And then you have those moments of you find like decisions [00:17:00] where you got led the wrong way where I fed into my own fantasy of a world, , what I built in my head, what would happen, and then , he breaks it down. But you have to sit when he breaks it down, there's nowhere else to go but sit with him, which is what you were talking about earlier.

And I love how you said. Your faith grew when everything else faded. 

Asheesh: Like we were talking earlier and you let me know that you fast. You know how to fast and such. That's not a spiritual discipline that I use enough. I can be honest about that, so in order for me to sit down sometimes in my life, it's not gonna be willingly. I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna keep going. I'm gonna keep going. I'm gonna keep going. And sometimes God has to say, Hey, sit you behind. Down. Chill out for a sec. 

Jenn: I need you to 

Asheesh: sit with 

Jenn: Yeah, 

Asheesh: yeah. Sit you behind.

Down. I need you to sit down for a minute and I know for a [00:18:00] fact he wanted me to see the type of man that I was becoming.

But as far as for me, I know that when I started realizing that, I started to really have to deal with a lot of the, during the season, right?

This whole season of being rebuilt. Sometimes there are old parts. That God wants to grab and he wants to fix those parts up and then put them back, and you're just going, no, I don't want that part. Get it away from me. I don't want that part. This part hurt me last time. I don't want it around me.

Get it away from me.

And God's going, no, it's different this time. Let's say one of those parts might be love, and I don't mean agape. Eros or phileo. Human being love, right? Sometimes God may wanna bring something to you that the last time you had an experience with it, it hurt you, it broke you, it hurt you deeply.

But maybe in this rebuilding season, God wants to bring it back to you in a different way, in a different form, because this time it's meant to be, it's meant [00:19:00] to last, right?

Jenn: No, thank you for going there.

I think this will segue into the next thing is because we were talking about what season of rebuilding do you feel like you're in? And you're talking about trusting God with the framework and the framework. I feel like you said it earlier, is being rebuilt in love when God rebuilds you in love.

And a lot of the times for me, I realize, like I don't even really know what love is. Like I had this distorted view of love. Not necessarily like super evil, but just not healthy. It's not like a healthy way of thinking about friends. I went on a prayer walk before this. I was like, man, like we are all just trying to learn how to love and love others and learn how we wanna be loved. And this world has a way of making it transactional, performative conditional.

And that really [00:20:00] stepped into my old framework and why it had to get rebuilt. But when you're talking about there's parts that he's gonna bring to you that he has to shift your thinking of like trust again with him. That really spoke to me. 

Asheesh: Yeah. I would say that sometimes, like you said maybe.

It's I don't know, for example, it's like a friend or something like that you had that was close to you. 

Jenn: Yeah. 

Asheesh: And you love them and you did life together and through situations and circumstances, right? That friend has now chosen to go a different place or a different walk in life.

A different path, right? Not your enemy, but they've chosen to go down a different path when God wants to bring you someone else. To your life and go, I have this person for you. Now that person was meant for this part of the race. Now I want to give you this person for the next part of your race.

You keep trying to go, I want that person back though. That's my [00:21:00] running partner right there. And God's going. And God sometimes is trying to let you know no, you don't understand son or daughter. Like that person was only meant to do this leg of the race with you. It was 20 years, 30 years. It was 10 years, five years. And God's I know. And I know it hurts. But it was only meant to be for this leg of the race. Now you have to go with your new running partner and this person, they're meant to be into this next part of life with you.

They're meant to do this next part of life with you. They're meant to. Because as we get older, we change. Yeah. Everything in life changes. Human beings are vehemently resistant to change. 

Even though it's as natural as breathing. So it only makes sense that eventually we would have to change, environments.

We'd have to change people. We'd have to, and only a person who wants to never grow is gonna want to just stay in the same place for everything. Yeah. But, a lot of times, more than we like to [00:22:00] admit that's a lot of us. That, that's a lot of us. But yeah. So I think we have to be going, we have to be open to God at a place to where the parts that we want to use.

We ask him about it first. Yeah. And then the parts that he wants to use, we don't ask him about it. We just trust. 

Jenn: Yeah. 

Asheesh: Yeah. We just trust. We try to come to this place of complete trust and surrender and. Some of us are hardheaded, man, and that's why we gotta be knocked down because we're hardheaded and we want to do things our own way.

Yeah. And we want our own version of what this life should look like following Jesus. 

even if it's a version that may seem extremely pious and outwardly holy and, dare I say pharisaical, like a ferri, like a Pharisee or a Sady you look very well put together, you look very holy, , but inwardly man, you're full of yourself or you're full of, hatred for other people. What is it contempt for your brother or your sister in the church?

Or you're full of pride. And you're not doing the duties that you should be doing, in the [00:23:00] station that you should be doing them meant father mother, husband, wife, pastor, preacher, et cetera.

Jenn: I'm sorry, I'm still stuck on the imagery that you gave about running the race and your running partner.

That's so good. And when you are being rebuilt in those different parts, God gives you support. Like he never really leaves you without even though it feels like you feel deserted and embarrassed and wondering who you can turn to and all these things, he really does put people in your life to really scaffold your growth and your faith.

But it's almost like. You have a baby bird that's wounded, and the bird doesn't wanna be touched. And you have these people and it's hard to trust them. So I guess for anyone listening, what helped you break down that trust and [00:24:00] discern and continue to build relationships that God put in your life during that heart season?

Asheesh: Ooh, okay. One of the major things probably the only two names I'll say, and it's for a great reason, but Abraham and Mary Mina, I love you dearly. These two people are a lovely couple from my church. That when I was going through the darkest time of my life, and, I was homeless as well they not only gave me a place to rent, but I truly believe in divine providence.

Because I didn't want anyone to get close to me. After going through everything I had gone through, losing everyone, everyone like I said, systematically just leaving and you feel this great sense of abandonment and trauma and anger. I was so pissed off at everything because how in the world could you be there for some people at the worst [00:25:00] times of their lives, and then all of a sudden, you're at the worst time of your life and everyone's gone.

So again, Abraham and Mary Mina not only open up their home, but they refused to let me be someone who was just gonna be a tenant. I'm like, no, I'm, I'll stay in my area. I'm renting this room. I have my drawer, I have my survival, I'm a survivor.

I know how to survive, I got my canned goods, I got my oatmeal, I got my what is it? Instant coffee. I'm good to go. Things like that. They weren't accepting that. They said, you know what come downstairs with us and have dinner. And then one time turned into two times and they said, Hey, you know what we're gonna go out.

Why don't you come with us? And mind you, I'm just like. A wreck because I had just lost everything. I don't really even know what I'm supposed to do with anything anymore. I'm trying to just keep going live one day to the next day. And little did I know that peace, by [00:26:00] peace God is in these people and he's moving through them to help reconstruct me.

God's used these two their empty nesters of I believe they have four kids, about four or five kids. Forgive me if I didn't get that number correct.

But they used them for my local church and they just opened up their home and they just refused to let somebody lay down and die in life when they wanted to, because I very much wanted to. And for me they are like

The tool that God was moving through or the vessel, . The vessel that God is moving to be like, I got you. I'm still with you. Even though everything else is gone, i'm still here. And that piece by piece started to just rebuild my hope, just in general, but especially in [00:27:00] people. 

Healed at the level that we are willing to accept healing. That's the best way I can say it,

I definitely had been offered healing, before in my life in a lot of different ways. But it's just like when you're willing to actually start taking steps towards healing, only you are gonna be able to do that, to make that choice.

People can sit there with their hand out all day. If you don't take their hand, nothing's gonna happen. 

It is transformative when you realize that the love that people have for you, it is not transactional. It's just love for love's sake. It's love because Christ is in them.

That's it. Almost the Good Samaritan, right? If I were to look at this in the spiritual realm, everybody else, 'cause I had reached out and I had tried to find help and things like that, everybody kept passing the man that was wounded on the street.

But the [00:28:00] Samaritan, what did he do? He came by and he picked the man up and he took him and he brought him into the end and bandage his wounds. And then he said, if this man accrues any more costs, then I'll pay that as well. And that's what these people did for me. 'cause I was spiritually beaten up and discarded on the side of the road.

And just within that hypothetical sense right there but it's amazing to know though, even being in this place of where everything, a lot of things still hurt greatly, even as I'm talking to you. But being, rebuilt in this place of not just the lessons that I've experienced, but the love that I've experienced and it's non-transactional format.

It's transformative because it doesn't, even though you want to be bitter and you want to be angry, you can only do that to such extent because you see that these people really care about you and if somebody really cares about you like this, then you must be worth sticking around, 

Jenn: it 

Asheesh: must be worth it for you to stick around.

Jenn: [00:29:00] Yeah, you've already shared so much, but is there a lesson or piece of wisdom that's coming to mind right now that you wanna share?

It could be a verse, a mindset shift or a moment of that change how you see things. And I think we have multiple moments in this time of being rebuilt, especially the framework piece. I feel like that framework is like constant, like it's like a pillar here, another one here,

but is there a lesson or wisdom that you that speaks to you right now that you wanna share? 

Asheesh: Probably just the same type of theme that I've just been reiterating throughout our time together. Not just the main theme of being rebuilt to last, but being inside the love of God may not always feel like you're inside the love of God. Just as when you're healing, it may not always feel like healing.

You're gonna get mad, you're gonna be angry, you're gonna backtrack. You're [00:30:00] gonna fall into sin. And then God's gonna have to come and get you and pull you out. You're going to feel very much like you're taking one step forward, two or three steps backwards. And because this process of just being made God is the author and finisher of our faith, right?

So you're still alive. I'm still alive. We're still breathing. God is still writing. Amen. If we're still breathing, God is still writing, but we just don't know how many more character development arcs that we want to go through.

Yeah. I highly suggest trying to do everything you can to absorb as much of that first lesson so you don't have to go through a second one.

And it is extremely humbling and it's a lesson you wish you didn't have to learn, but.

Everything is what is it? A 50 50 in hindsight or Yeah, 20 20 20. Something like that. 

Jenn: Hindsight, 

Asheesh: Yeah. Something like, I'm not the best 

Jenn: at 

Asheesh: turf. Everything makes sense when you look back from the place you are now with a clear view. That's the [00:31:00] best way I can put it,

and lessons, there's a lot of lessons for me. The lesson I'm currently learning actively, practically, and painfully is self-forgiveness.

But self-forgiveness to forgive yourself for things. Admit your sin, admit that you did wrong, but then ultimately, especially as a believer, one John nine says, what if we confess our sins? He's faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So if I've been cleansed from all unrighteousness, 'cause I've confessed my sin, then , why do I hold onto this?

To just bash and tear down and destroy myself. If Jesus is saying, I forgive you, okay. I forgive you. it's a lesson that has to be learned, Probably in this part of the rebuilding process, that's the part that we're on right now. Okay. I'm God's like self-forgiveness.

I'm like, no, I don't want that part.

 it really is a day by day thing. But I can tell you that I.

Gratitude, [00:32:00] non cliche, right? But g gratitude of practically wake up in the morning and you're gonna be bombarded with everything that you're going through, especially if you're dealing with, depression or anxiety or doubt or grief or practicing ways to specifically name things that you're thankful for.

Maybe three to five things, right? 

Yeah. 

Out loud. Or write them down. And it might feel stupid, it might feel dumb, it might feel like this isn't gonna work, but you don't find happiness. You practice it.

Take this from one of the most, what is it? Melancholy, Debbie Downer type of people in the world that, I'm telling you this, you don't find happiness, you practice it. You just have to do what you can to today. My coffee was a good temperature, so you write that down.

Today I saw like for me, oh, the kids were smiling at work today and nobody [00:33:00] was fighting all right.

That's a good thing right there. Oh, at church today, we talked about a subject that I felt a little bit of the spiritual pressure off my shoulders. God took some pressure off my shoulders at church, things like that, instead of just thinking about, this sucks. I hate life. I hate being alive, I hate breathing.

I lost everything. No one's really gonna stay around forever. It's that's like existing in a hell. In your own mind. 

Jenn: Yeah. 

Asheesh: And so yeah, just practice while you're being rebuilt. 

Jenn: No, that's good. And I wanna backtrack a bit because in your form you talk about Christian performance

and I think how you mentioned it's such a process of being made and you are gonna feel like, man, we went over this and I have to go over this again, and I knew better and I did it again. And you go through that. 'cause you're unlearning a lot and relearning the new, but you don't know what new looks like yet.

Yeah. [00:34:00] And , if you could speak on the process of making mistakes was it gratitude that kind of got you through that? Because I think I have gotten down on myself, and it feels better to just like self loath and be like that with God. But he doesn't want that.

He's not looking for performers. He wants you to get back up again and keep your eyes focused on him. So for anyone, just in the one step forward, two steps back kind of thing and learning their old nature being transformed to their new nature what encouragement would you give,

Asheesh: oh, the time of where I was making the I went out and, committed a bunch of sins, yeah. I'm there too. 

Jenn: I've had that season. 

Asheesh: Yeah. Yes. There was a time, shortly after going through the downfall and the collapse of everything that in order to feel better, I was trying to grab whatever parts I could grab and I was, I was indulging in alcoholism and this is over the period of I wanna say about maybe [00:35:00] six months to a year, on and off, just things going through,

alcoholism and various other sins and various locations

Jenn: like false sense of comfort. I think we all go through that. We just, 

Asheesh: You're just grabbing at anything you can to try to make you feel something. 

Jenn: Yeah. 

Asheesh: Other than feeling like you want to die.

Jenn: Then that sorrow.

Yeah. 

Asheesh: And, if you really feel that, like people who really feel that any listeners or, even yourself, like anybody who ever would feel that way, like I genuinely, sincerely as a person who lives to actively stay out of that very dark pit, not even a place, it's a pit. Yeah. I empathize with you.

I really, I'm rooting for you. I really hope you just try to take one step in front of the other. Put one foot in front of the other. I'll share a little story with you. There was one day when I was at a coffee shop and all of my attempts to reconcile and to get back what I had so desperately wanted [00:36:00] to, reconcile and get back with relationships, a home.

Sense of self, all of that, right? And I realized that it's just not coming back. I had made a decision, it come to a decision in my mind. I said, you know what, that's it. I'm done. And I remember walking up to a homeless man who was on the street taking the shoes off of my feet because I was done.

And I just gave him my shoes. I had some like Nikes on too. They were pretty nice. And I just went into my car, I walked down the street barefoot. Nobody said anything so I just walked down the street. I knew what I was gonna go do, but instead, when I got in the car, I got in the car and I said, you know what?

I think I'm gonna call 9 8 8. I think this, if anytime ever warranted this, I think it's a no. And that was the first. Time I ever called the suicide attempt line or, 9, 8 8. And I remember just [00:37:00] being on that call and that person was, the people that are there, they're just there to talk to you, to deter you, to see if you need to, go anywhere else or if you need to follow up with go to the hospital or something like that.

But I remember just sitting there man, everything I'm doing to try to fix this, it's just not working. None of this is working. None of this is helping. Nothing is and it's the not fix it as far as feel better fix it is believe that feeling better meant that I had to have back everything that I lost in the exact same way that it was before I lost it.

And I remember being like, but. Ash, you're about to go take yourself out, man, here, and you don't have any of these things that you want back coming to try to help you, and you couldn't even call 'em. So what [00:38:00] are you really doing? Why don't you look and see if there's a possible, there must be another option.

There must be another way. And then long story short, I reached out to a friend and I was able to get to church and I was able to get to my men's support group. And, thank God I'm still here talking to you.

Jenn: Hallelujah. Thank you, Jesus.

Yes. 

Asheesh: Yeah. That side story is just for story. I'm, I've been there, man. Yeah. Like for people that are there or have been there, like I've been there, I just say, please stay. I know it sucks. I know it. It's just devastating waking up sometimes, but.

Please stay because if you're still living, then God is still writing.

Jenn: Yeah, 

Asheesh: I did not even answer your question at all, 

Jenn: No, I thank you so much for sharing. We can talk about these things and I think when you know these feelings and you know how dark they can get, how you can [00:39:00] spiral how devastating it can be and demoralizing.

We do have to sympathize with how real that hole is and how deep it goes and how hard it is to pull yourself out of it. And, I've struggled with that as well of I'm gonna have to call the hotline. It's a very scary reality when you're there, knowing that you cannot save yourself.

you need someone to come save you. So

for anyone listening, yes, please know that God is with you. Please know that there's people that love you. Please know that you're not alone in any of this. Me and you are here today. We're living we're talking, , God is still writing it's an insane season and it really breaks you in a lot of ways.

And I'll share, three years ago when we recorded, I was sleeping on a air mattress at my sister's place. [00:40:00] I was living outta suitcases. I had just moved out of a beautiful home in Millbury Hills. I also was having a moment of Lord, like I don't know what I'm doing. My life looks a little crazy right now to me and everyone else around me, but I'm gonna try to stick through this.

But it's such a battle every day when you wake up and when you go to bed.

Like from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed, like you're just rolling through those days and those weeks truly in survival mode. So we sympathize with anyone truly going through that, and I think that's why.

Who are here today talking about it. 

Asheesh: I always appreciate the fact that we could come on here and keep it real and keep it honest. And I believe God is glorified through that. Going back to that part that you mentioned earlier about Christian performance or performance.

Yeah. Let's go 

there.

Asheesh: Yeah. Christian performance or [00:41:00] performative religious practices. And I'm not talking about loving and respecting people because that's not an option. Jesus is very clear about that.

But. There are some things that due to what we want people to perceive as a positive or a proper Christian performance that we will neglect about ourselves that are absolute necessities that we must have. One of the major things for me for many years, I do believe that the church, and I'm gonna go there for a moment as well, the Western church, right?

And and science and medicine they have taken a very long time to see eye to eye with each other, and the church still doesn't understand the impact and the importance of therapy, of having a professional person just like a doctor. When you cut your finger or you cut your finger, you cut off your finger, you go to the doctor, right?

I know some people will say I'll just go to church and [00:42:00] I'll pray about it. I highly doubt if you amputate your finger. That you would run to a church, I think you're gonna go to the hospital and have a professional person who God is blessed and anointed their hands with those practices to reattach your finger.

So then if your mind is wounded to a point where there is a great fissure or a rupture or something is broken in the mind, you can pray about it, of course, but I would really think that you would go to the doctor that would specialize in the mind.

Yeah. For me, that has been paramount in the healing process that I've been going through and just developing process of understanding myself, of understanding why I do the things I do, why I reach for what I reach for I go all the way back, all the way back down

to the bedrock of your humanity. And they help you understand this is why you may be making the decisions that you make or you've made the decisions that you've made. But yeah, I think therapy is something that the church needs to [00:43:00] develop more of an appreciation for, more of an appreciation because it's not the opposition.

It could go hand in hand with the spiritual wellbeing. And I think, again, these things that we do just to be perceived as holy or in right standing with God. Even the way we speak at times like there's times when I know that I am in a Christian circle that.

If I say any type of a swear word at all, I'm gonna get side eyed, 

Jenn: Yeah, 

Asheesh: yeah. I'm gonna get, yeah, I'm gonna get side eyed, right? Yeah. I was raised up Pentecostal that's a normal thing. But if I'm in my men's group where I'm in a men's group with men that are former military, and there's guys that are in there that have done some bids and some time in we call it vacation, like San Quentin vacation and such.

And there's just men from all different walks of life. If we're in there and somebody drops a couple of swear words or something like that, we understand that it's raw and [00:44:00] real, and we're still gonna pray at the end. 

You know what I mean? Because we want you to bring your whole self to this group.

And that's what I mean, if it's based off of performance and me being what in the world would draw God to me in this season you know what I mean? Because God isn't drawn by your performance, and he is not drawn by your ability to not commit any sins.

He's drawn by what I have talked to my father. When I spoke to my father, he said he wanted to get as close to God as possible. And I said, pops, you just be broken. 

Brokenness draws the Lord. 

Jenn: Amen. Yeah, I appreciate that. I am a huge advocate for therapy. Therapy has truly done wonders for me to help me understand me, it's given me tools to live life fully. Versus live life in a very performative way. And when you were saying God has also done that to me, where I had to rethink that I have to be deserving of God's love. have to do certain things and I cannot do other things in order to be loved.

[00:45:00] And so that's a very real

conditioned way of thinking.

That we just struggle with. Yeah, I need to hear that. I think other people need to hear that it, sometimes we don't even know we're doing it. It's just as a subconscious thing of he's no, you're good. You're mine. That's it. And it's I know, but don't I have to work harder?

Don't I have to do this? Don't I have to show up here? And he's no, you don't need any of that. So it's very real thank you for also talking about therapy and about, brotherhood and having a really authentic community that accepts you and allows you to be yourself.

Asheesh: Shout out to Brave Hearted Brotherhood. It's to Salinas Valley Community Church. I love y'all, man. Y'all literally helped save my life. All of y'all.

Jenn: Okay. Can I ask a personal question? I'm just full of personal questions, but I'm curious for guys, 'cause girls are very [00:46:00] different, our women groups are different for guys. Do you, and for anyone interested in joining a men's group, what would you say? 

Asheesh: I would say just come as you are, literally, as you are, come to, you can come to our men's group if you're, high drunk. Any type of struggle that you may be dealing with, don't let that detour you or keep you away from coming into the church or coming into the group. Our group is at church, but sometimes they're held in garages or whatever, but coming into the place to where God will meet you at, God will meet you exactly where you're at.

No matter what you're dealing with. All the men that come to my group are from all different walks of life, like I said, and they are all men that come in broken, burdened, and very often do not have a place to share or unload any of that. And we're talking about [00:47:00] sometimes 30, 40, 50 plus years of baggage, of pain, of abandonment, of trauma, and they don't have anywhere.

If they don't have a safe place, even their home, they can't do that. A lot of men do not show all of the things that they're suffering in their household.

They will save that, they will keep it, they will lock it in, they will push it down. They will do whatever they have to do. And there is a lot of unhealthy ways that they cope with those things. But we cope with those things. So what we do when we come to our group is we get to take all that stuff and dump it out in the middle of the table and guess what, what's said there?

Stays there. Just don't confess to no murders or nothing like that. You know what, we ain't going down. No. But what's said there stays there. Everybody that's there

can understand and can relate to some level to what each man is going through. it's a beautiful thing to have that type of a place to go to. [00:48:00] Sometimes I go to meetings, I don't even talk. I sit there and I just listen.

Jenn: Yeah. And showing up is enough some days. 

Yeah. Shout out to Brothers in Christ, brave Hearted Brotherhood. I'm so happy that you have a community and yeah, I know that men carry a lot and don't have a lot of avenues or outlets to express themselves, let alone, men don't have a lot of healthy ways to express things. Like a lot of outlets, like I feel like women, they have different things, like where it's more acceptable for women to do versus men don't have that more creative outlets or different ways to express themselves.

Men don't. I really do hope that grows

Asheesh: Yeah.

As men, we're still human beings, even though a lot of us would like to believe that we're super human But the reality is that every man does have a level of fragility [00:49:00] in him and. Once that level of fragility is pushed to its limits and it breaks, that's when you start to unfortunately you'll see the crumbling or the falling apart of the man, but all of those cracks and fissures that could have been addressed earlier through things like therapy.

And I understand I go to the gym a lot. I work in a weight room. I coach a lot of young men on how to do strength and conditioning and things like that. Lifting weights is a great form of therapy. Boxing is a great form of therapy, 

and I know there may be some guys out there with the Jim bro mentality or the new alpha mentality or whatever you want to call it.

That would argue with me about that. I'm very comfortable in being a man and in my masculinity, and I'm telling you. That it is not enough, we can lift as many weights as we want. We can put as many, black and white filters and [00:50:00] inspirational quotes on our posts as we want.

But until we go to the proper place to get the issue that we're suffering from addressed, we will not get better. We will just keep living at a capacity of life that could be less than what God has intended us to live in. 

Jenn: Yeah. Anything else that has anchored you through this time?

Asheesh: I would say that I have Abe and Mary, and then I also have my beautiful fiance Vanessa. 

But my fiance and I talk about everything and anything within respects of, she is not my therapist. I'm not her therapist. You don't wanna bring that into your relationship.

You wanna share, but you want to have a respect for the other person's emotional capacity about how much they can deal with certain things, and we've been through some things together. But that's one of those major parts that I was talking about before. When I [00:51:00] met her, I was still greatly wounded and I didn't want God to give me that love part.

Back to being rebuilt, that part of love. Even if he had taken it and he had formed it and made it to be something that was greater than I could possibly even imagine, I still was very resistant to taking that, that part. But she has been a absolute blessing in my life and she has sat with me and she has talked with me.

And she has been someone that met me in a part of my life to where I know for a fact there's no reason that this woman should have just stuck around. It's just like when you meet somebody when they're just downing out, and I'm sleeping on a futon and you know how guys put together a place?

We'll be like, oh, I got a TV and I got a futon and I got water. I got some water in my mini fridge. Yeah. And then she's just okay, all right. I accept that, [00:52:00] and not only I accept that, but I love you. And I think when you find that place of in another person, that another person is like, they don't see that villain that you may think of yourself.

They don't see that broken. Person that deserves to be discarded as refuse or whatever. They see something different and you can tell, like, when they're looking at you, you're like, what are you seeing that I'm not, yeah. Shout out to my beautiful fiance.

Jenn: Sorry. I just love how we got from where we started to now.

Alright, so we have covered a lot in this episode. It has already been an hour in and I'm super duper thankful because only you can get us to the places that you've been. And it takes a lot of heart, it takes a lot of grit and it takes a lot of faith and it takes a lot of bravery to talk [00:53:00] about the things that we've talked about today.

And with that, I do believe God is glorified through us just being honest and real about what he's doing in our lives. So if someone is listening, feels like they're starting over. Or their goal is too big to achieve or they're scared their future or on the verge of giving up pretty much anything in this season.

What encouragement would you like to share to them today? What would you like to leave us with? 

Asheesh: Like I said, practice gratitude. Get yourself some accountability. Make sure you have accountability in your life. Make sure you have a few people around you that are not yes men or yes women. They're gonna talk to you and they're gonna tell you.

And I don't mean just about the things that you're doing to mess up I'm talking about when you're giving up on yourself or you're refusing to get out of bed. You need some people who will literally.

Come over and knock on your [00:54:00] tour and be like, Hey, let's go for a walk, or let's go for a run. Especially if you're going through a season like what we've been talking about. Get yourself into a local church group or support group, or even a grief support group actually. One of the main things that I know for a fact that is very common particularly with people who go through things like divorce is it's just like someone dying.

It's just like someone passing away. So the grief is catastrophically similar. And then you may even be grieving yourself, the person that you were, the person that you dreamed that you were always gonna be. And now that dream has been shattered and. So getting yourself around, not just like a support group, but there's grief counseling therapy, but then ultimately knowing that God is the person that is going to come and be with you no matter what.[00:55:00] 

I think somewhere in the scripture it says that even if my mother and my father were to forsake me, Lord, you're there. You're, you'll be with me. And then also just the way that God deals with us in our grief and in our pain. If the devil ever tries to shame you and make you feel that you're not holy or you're not spiritual enough and you should be basically smiling through this and rejoicing, we can remember the experience of the men in the Bible particularly I would say Elijah

when he asked God to take his life from him because he thought that all the prophets of bow were basically just going to kill him. He had just called down the fire from Heaven to take up the burn offering and kill the prophets of Bow, but I think it was Jezebel or somebody that wanted his head, so he is telling God that he wanted to die and God responds to him, not with a rebuke, not with a, you didn't follow this.

You should be rejoicing, you should be praying. [00:56:00] God told him to take a nap. And then he wakes him up and he feeds him. And then I think he has him go back to sleep and he feeds him again. And then God starts to talk to him. And I think if we remember, that's the type of God that we serve. That's Jehovah Gyra, Jehovah Niecy, El Shadi, God.

Yahweh ultimately that is our father in heaven and he is a father and he will definitely love us and treat us in our brokenness way better than we could treat ourselves or ever try to fix ourselves.

So Jesus loves you.

Jenn: That's such a good note to, to leave on and I'll take one of your sentences from the preform you said, just know that God is the author and finisher of our faith, and if you are still breathing, then God is still writing [00:57:00] and I am so appreciative of you. I just thank you so much for just being so real and honest and not holding back and truly displaying your love for God.

Because even though at the end of the day, we're just trying our best right, and figuring out what that looks like, and you being so honest helps us, I hope it helps anyone listening to just be like, okay, this is my walk with God and it doesn't have to , look like anybody else's, and it's just me and him some seasons.

And I really appreciate you sharing that and just so thankful for you and our friendship. And I know you pray for me. I'll pray for you. We are truly brothers and sisters in Christ. And for anyone listening I hope you stick to the rest of the series and that you just don't give up during this rebuilding season of your life.

Amen. Amen. Alright, thank you Ash, and we will catch y'all next [00:58:00] time. 

Speaker 2: We pray that your 

faith 

Speaker 2: is encouraged today, and if you feel called, please share this episode with a friend. Help the algorithm out, subscribe for updates. Until next time, God bless you.